Women... Part 2
Yesterday we looked at numerous verses that showed or dealt with women preaching. Hopefully you were able to formulate your own opinion after you got to read those verses. Today will hopefully give you a conclusion to my understanding of this topic.
It could seem as though, with those verses given, that the Bible may contradict itself. However, I think after a clear understanding of some key distinction in words used, the Bible leads us to a clear conclusion. In some of the verses listed we see that the word overseer is used (such as 1 Tim 3:1-7). This word "overseer" is what we would think of today as a pastor.
We have forgotten that there is a clear distinction between "pastor" and "preacher". Pastoring is a role. Preaching is a function. Pastoring does not mean preaching, just as preaching does not necessarily entail pastoring. Their is a key difference, pastoring is leading the local congregation... Preaching is proclaiming the Truth. We just assume that the two are inseparable. Many people do not agree with women preachers because they are confused of the distinct difference between the two words.
Other reasons for people disagreeing with women preaching:
- inherited theology
- insecurities
- misuse of females who tried to take it to the opposite extreme (feminists)
Today in our churches we play a semantics game. If there is a woman who comes to speak she is not called a preacher, she is called a speaker. It makes us feel better (insecurities). I will admit that before I read these verses I had a negative view of women preachers (inherited theology), however after listening to a seminary professor and then reasearching these verses I was able to formulate my own understanding of this issue.
It is clear through scripture that God used women to reveal God's glory through the function of preaching/proclaiming/prophesying. I put the verse in 2 Chronicles to show us that God can use anything to speak through. To think otherwise would be ignorant and heretical. Trying to bound God into this neat little box is a dangerous position for us. Besides... people who read verses that say that women are not to speak in church forget that they then need to use that same literal interpretation on all of scripture. I think they would be very sad to see that the same book tells men that we should not get married or ever "touch a woman".
To claim that women should not speak in church, or that women should not preach would have multiple levels of implications for us. What do you do with the Samaritan woman, Deborah, Phillips daughters who prophesied, and maybe most forthtelling... Mary Magdalene who in John 20 is the first to run back to the disciples (who, by the way, were questioning who this man Jesus truly was; thinking he was only a prophet) and told them (proclaiming, preaching) that the tomb was empty! Look in the next chapter to see who John mentions Jesus appearing to first...Mary Magdalene.
To take a stand against women preachers not only places a man-made limitation on God, it limits everyday occurrences in churches. If women are not to speak in church... women should not sing. Women should not teach Sunday School (no matter the age). Women should not be sent out as missionaries. Women should never counsel a female (ministering in ways that men should and could not ever do). Women should never evangelize.
In conclusion, we need to teach our church that there is a fundamental difference between a preacher and a pastor; we need to realize that semantics only leads to our pride being able to stay intact, and we need to realize that limiting God will only bring heartache and pain when we force God to teach our stubborn hearts.
It could seem as though, with those verses given, that the Bible may contradict itself. However, I think after a clear understanding of some key distinction in words used, the Bible leads us to a clear conclusion. In some of the verses listed we see that the word overseer is used (such as 1 Tim 3:1-7). This word "overseer" is what we would think of today as a pastor.
We have forgotten that there is a clear distinction between "pastor" and "preacher". Pastoring is a role. Preaching is a function. Pastoring does not mean preaching, just as preaching does not necessarily entail pastoring. Their is a key difference, pastoring is leading the local congregation... Preaching is proclaiming the Truth. We just assume that the two are inseparable. Many people do not agree with women preachers because they are confused of the distinct difference between the two words.
Other reasons for people disagreeing with women preaching:
- inherited theology
- insecurities
- misuse of females who tried to take it to the opposite extreme (feminists)
Today in our churches we play a semantics game. If there is a woman who comes to speak she is not called a preacher, she is called a speaker. It makes us feel better (insecurities). I will admit that before I read these verses I had a negative view of women preachers (inherited theology), however after listening to a seminary professor and then reasearching these verses I was able to formulate my own understanding of this issue.
It is clear through scripture that God used women to reveal God's glory through the function of preaching/proclaiming/prophesying. I put the verse in 2 Chronicles to show us that God can use anything to speak through. To think otherwise would be ignorant and heretical. Trying to bound God into this neat little box is a dangerous position for us. Besides... people who read verses that say that women are not to speak in church forget that they then need to use that same literal interpretation on all of scripture. I think they would be very sad to see that the same book tells men that we should not get married or ever "touch a woman".
To claim that women should not speak in church, or that women should not preach would have multiple levels of implications for us. What do you do with the Samaritan woman, Deborah, Phillips daughters who prophesied, and maybe most forthtelling... Mary Magdalene who in John 20 is the first to run back to the disciples (who, by the way, were questioning who this man Jesus truly was; thinking he was only a prophet) and told them (proclaiming, preaching) that the tomb was empty! Look in the next chapter to see who John mentions Jesus appearing to first...Mary Magdalene.
To take a stand against women preachers not only places a man-made limitation on God, it limits everyday occurrences in churches. If women are not to speak in church... women should not sing. Women should not teach Sunday School (no matter the age). Women should not be sent out as missionaries. Women should never counsel a female (ministering in ways that men should and could not ever do). Women should never evangelize.
In conclusion, we need to teach our church that there is a fundamental difference between a preacher and a pastor; we need to realize that semantics only leads to our pride being able to stay intact, and we need to realize that limiting God will only bring heartache and pain when we force God to teach our stubborn hearts.
posted by Matthew "MO" Olszewski at 2/04/2006
10 Comments:
First lets look at 1st Timothy 3:1, “It is a trust worthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do so.” We have here a topic, overseer, which has not been dealt with before. The topic of overseer bring up the fact that at this time in the Church a structure has begun to take form. The question of time period is not easily answered because the question of authorship is not easily answered. If Pauline authorship is accepted this would be around 63-67 CE, and if pseudonymous authorship is accepted this time period may be as late as 180 CE. Whatever date is accepted it is clear that the role as overseer was not always in place. So why did the office of overseer come about? To answer this briefly I would say that all offices in the 1st century church, deacons, elders, and overseers were formed to preserve the unity of the faith. That means that there were problems in the Church and they had to do something to fix them, thus create a position that dealt with the problem. This is clearly seen in Acts 6 in the formation of Deacons. The Writer of this 1st Timothy defends the position of overseer when he says “It is a trustworthy statement” and “it is fine work he desires to do”, so at some point there was an opposition to this position of overseer within the Church. I write all of this to show the reader of that verse that the position of overseer was something that arose over time and did not take place just as soon as Christ ascended into heaven for the last time. When Christ ascended into heaven God did not send down the instructions of how to run the church, in fact at that time it was not even the church, as we know it today, it was a Jewish cult.
Second you make the statement “This word "overseer" is what we would think of today as a pastor.” If this is statement is true why did the writer use the word επισκοπνς, (literally bishop) and not use the word ποιμενασ, (literally pastor)? If you accept the Pauline tradition of this book than Paul knew the word for pastor for he used it in Ephesians 4:11. So I say no the word overseer at is used in this verse is not what we would think of today as a pastor. If we keep reading the passage we see that in verses 4 & 5 the writer makes the point that the main task of a bishop is to manage the church of God. Whereas a pastor is not one who is a manager but one who “cares for” others.
I must stop now for I could continue on for a long time relating to your post. I will however state pose one last question. You make this statement, “I put the verse in 2 Chronicles to show us that God can use anything to speak through. To think otherwise would be ignorant and heretical. Trying to bound God into this neat little box is a dangerous position for us. Besides...” I assume you are talking about in is ignorant and heretical to say God cannot speak/preach through women. Well why is it not ignorant and heretical to say GOD CANNOT use a women as a pastor, are we putting God into our own neat little boxes, were the New Testament writers putting God in a Box?
I will just comment on the last paragraph. I have biblical precedence for my statements. You are only using academia and their questioning of scripture to base your argument. I have to trust that God has given us His words for us (no matter textual critics or canonical issues). We can question things for our entire life, or we can accept them and learn from what we have to guide out life, no matter its possible problems.
this is pretty amusing
I see myself having biblical precedence because I use analysis to determine what the authors were original saying, and do not just accept everything in it blindly. For we have a lot of manuscript evidence that some of the verses in the Bible are not the way they appear in the original manuscripts and some verses in the Bible are not found in the earliest manuscripts that we have. We also know that the 39 books of the OT and the 27 books of the NT were not the only books written and used. The ones that we have in the Canon are because they were the popular ones. In fact Marcion the first person to make a listing of the of NT Scriptures threw out the entire OT, this was in the 2nd century. Good thing someone changed the first list to include the OT. If someone does just accept the Bible by faith alone (which I do not even think is possible but some claim to) I do not believe they are taking the Bible serious.
SEXIST PIGS!!!!
Did you happen to read what I wrote?
Well, I would love to know how I (we) are sexist considering I said that women should be able to preach/proclaim. Read all of it... don't just skim it.
I am not here to argue with you Mr. Olszewski. Mr. Hodges was the only one that said anything intelligent at all, women are great preachers and they should be given the same respect as men, look at the great things Mrs. Tammy Faye Baker did, and all the things she went through, you need not discount the power of a great lady such as her
You apparently should go re-read my posts (both) since I do not discount women preachers. I discount them leading (head pastor) a church.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:28
I am sorry. I was wrong. Want to be friends?
Post a Comment
<< Home